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We have "disagree," and we have "strongly disagree." If Gayle strongly, strongly feels something about somebody— Gayle: It gives her pause. Oprah: We don't have that pact because it would happen automatically. There's nothing I wouldn't do for her, there's nothing she wouldn't do for me.

Start reading Lisa Kogan's interview with Oprah and Gayle Note: This interview appeared in the August 2006 issue of O, The Oprah Magazine. Every time I tell somebody, "I'm interviewing Oprah and Gayle," the response is always the same: "Oh. How else can you explain a level of intimacy where someone always loves you, always respects you, admires you? Oprah: Wants the best for you in every single situation of your life. Oprah: I've told nearly everything there is to tell. People think I'd be so ashamed of being gay that I wouldn't admit it? It's hard enough for me to get a date on a Saturday night. Oprah: We were just down in the Bahamas—I was giving a wedding for my niece there. But when she doesn't agree, she'll fight for her opinion as though there were a G on that magazine. My best friend, Brenda, and I have established the Sunny von Bülow pact: If something ever happens to one of us, whoever's still mobile has to come by every three weeks and pluck any unseemly facial hair. Oprah: I had $482 just sort of stuck into a coat pocket. It can be all that it can be, and it's extraordinary, in terms of the level I've been able to achieve, and to have Gayle by my side as happy as I am for those accomplishments.

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After 30 years of four-times-a-day phone calls, Oprah and Gayle sit down for a nice, long, startlingly honest chat—about their friendship, those tabloid rumors (who could forget that night in the Bahamas? "Gayle doesn't like my hair, but that's okay 'cause I do," Oprah tells me. Oprah: It gives me pause, because she's been my—she's apple pie and Chevrolet. So if there's somebody she doesn't like, that will get my attention because she's truly everybody's friend—far friendlier than I am. Gayle: My only instructions have been to go get her journals. Gayle: I would just want her to be involved in my children's lives—always. There is a line of respect that is unspoken, on both our parts.

She was always 100 percent there for those kids—to this day. I love the way she understood that though the marriage was not going to work, her husband still needed to have a space to maintain a strong relationship with these kids. It's always, always, always been about what's best for her children.

She said, "I want my face to be the first face my kids see when they wake up and the last thing they see at night." So it wasn't like the nanny came and— Gayle: Replaced me. But when I think about the way she raised her kids, that makes me weepy. Gayle is the best mother I have ever seen, heard, or read about. These kids have grown up with such love and support from Gayle, and also from Gayle's ex-husband.

[Laughter] Lisa: Oprah, how did you feel when Gayle got married? Everybody wants to raise good people, not just smart people at Ivy League schools and all that but good people. But I love that people love her so much and are so interested in communicating with her, so I never look at it as a hassle or burden. It's one of the things that's so amazing about this friendship. [Laughter] Oprah: The first time Gayle spent the night at my house was because there was a snowstorm and she couldn't get home. So we were on our way to the mall, and we pass a car dealership where I spot a black Bentley in the lot. Shouldn't you think about this or try to negotiate a better deal? Oprah: They wanted to fire me, but they couldn't because of the contract. [Laughter] Gayle: They had run a big campaign: "What is an Oprah? Oprah: And that was the hardest thing, because I'd never failed in front of my father. For example, when I was pregnant, I had the show on, and— Gayle: Oh, I know, I know, I know. " Oprah: But years later, she said, "You remember that time you pulled out the 2? " Oprah: "I needed that money so bad, but I wouldn't take it." You know what that's like? Not that I wouldn't have done it, but in order to have a real friendship, you have to be equals. Gayle: Yeah, I never feel lesser than, or one down. Early on, when I started to make a lot of money and we'd go shopping, I'd say, "Look, the deal is this: If you see something you really want, I'll get it.

Mostly because I just didn't think it was going to work out. And you feel that there's something special going on. Oprah: But they don't always have kids who turn out the way yours have. Gayle: Well, I know what Oprah would be interested in hearing and what she wouldn't, and, you know, I've figured out a way to politely decline. We've been friends since I was making ,000 and she was making ,000. Gayle: Not much has changed, except now she's making a stratospheric salary. [Laughter] Oprah: Years later, for my 42nd birthday, we were in Miami, and I decided I was going to buy myself a birthday present. " Anyway, Gayle was like, "You're going to buy that right now? I remember when they decided to fire me— Gayle: Not fire, demote. Jerry was like, "Babe, I don't even know what happened, babe." You know, "Sorry, babe." Gayle: I was stunned. Gayle: You were going to see your dad that next day. I will not set myself up to fail." Lisa: Gayle, has Oprah ever said anything about you on the air that inadvertently crossed the privacy line? I'm fine." But I'm thinking, "God, that would pay the light bill, the phone bill, the gas bill." And she just puts it back. She was just extending a gesture, just being nice: "Oh, you want it? [Laughter] No, but I just wouldn't have felt right. There is a level of mutual respect that comes from being with somebody you know doesn't want anything from you but you. I have to say, this would have been a much different relationship had that ever happened. I can't put myself in a position where I need you to do things for me, or expect you to do things for me with any kind of strings attached. The person who has the money has to have a generous spirit.

And I say, "No, I don't think so." And invariably, they respond with something like "You know, you're very naive." Oprah: I understand why people think we're gay. " Gayle: I really do marvel at this because if Stedman didn't accept me, it would be very difficult for us to be friends. If you don't like my best friend, then you don't like me. Oprah: One of my favorite moments was about ten, 12 years ago when we were in Racine, Wisconsin. " I say it's because I know that the magazine is called O. So when you're around black folks, and they say, "Who's your favorite singer—" Gayle: I liked Barry Manilow. Gayle: But we still had a very strong sense of being black and were very proud of being black. And we were the same age, we were both single, and we just immediately bonded. But I was talking about pregnancy, what actually happens—and that's one of the things people never tell you. He was in law school and I was the only one working. [Laughter] So don't ask me to give you unconditional love, because there are certain things I won't tolerate. Oprah: Something about this relationship feels otherworldly to me, like it was designed by a power and a hand greater than my own.

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